Being the center of attention is great when you're on stage. Especially when your show features tribal primitives grinding power sanders on sensitive body parts, vinyl clad go-go dancers, and a vocalist who bandies about the stage on stilts.

But if you're the male to female transsexual lead singer/guitarist of All The Pretty Horses, Minneapolis' dark glam musical orgy, probing eyes remain fixed in your direction long after the show ends. And it's usually not for the music.

So don't mind if Venus, an accomplished fimmaker, painter and composer, has a few words for those of you who don't get it. If s/he isn't busy deflecting nosy stares, s/he's most likely doing public work to get the word out that Trans people are, well, people too.

Besides organizing parties for the Twin Cities more sexually adventurous dwellers, the amazonian gender bender has also produced several documentaries which have been screened everywhere from Berlin to San Francisco. Focusing on what s/he knows best, transgender issues are given an important voice through Venus' public speaking and music giving awareness to a lifestyle that still causes confusion, even in today's enlightened times.

So how does one person balance public scrutiny with band mates who prefer power tools to penetration and still find the time (and energy) to be artistically challenging? Asking questions that needed some serious answers, Dixie Tucker talked with Venus and s/he gladly filled us in on the Minneapolis fetish scene, all those documentaries, and why the guys still won't let hir change a tire.

Dixie Tucker: Let's talk about the music. All The Pretty Horses is dark and powerful but yet uplifting. What elements go into your songwriting and how much do you keep an eye out for the live aspect of the music when you are writing?

Venus: When I write…I write from what I know…my life. As a trans-person…it sometimes can get quite dark…but what's going through dark times if you can't do something with them to help out someone else, if in no other way than to share the experience or emotions from the journey.

As far as the live aspect…I concentrate on the music first. Then when that's finished…we road wear it…eventually it just becomes the live entity of itself. We can't duplicate all aspects of a recording with a live performance…but that's what makes a live performance fun…it's different than the recording.

DT: ATPH has a fantastic stage show that involves not only music but dancers and racy performances, what is it like being onstage with all that going on around you and how does the audience react to such a busy stage show?

V: Like a dream…really. It's as if I'm living some other life next to my daily life - like you feel after dreaming. What was that! Why did that happen?? You know. Did I really Fly? Or did I just think I did???

I do believe the audience feels it too in a similar way that we do. We all experience that time together.

DT: All The Pretty Horses has some serious roots in the Fetish scene and utilizes a good dose of stage performance in your shows. In what ways has being involved in the BDSM scene helped you express yourself through art that maybe you couldn't do otherwise?

V: "Power - Sex - Fashion - Pleasure" Hmmm…The fashion is fierce! Who could want anything else? Seriously though, I do think that MTF trans-people have traditionally been seen as "Girly-Girl" sissy-boys--fluffy cupcakes who you squashed whenever you had the chance. I don't feel that way, I don't want to be perceived as such. What I'm trying to show, and the fetish aspect has helped with, is that the trans-community is as complex as any other community or people - a non-traditional image of a powerful and sexy persona as an MTF trans-person, should also be an option, rather than just the standard stereotype that trans-people have had to put up with for…hmmm…oh, lemme think now….oh yeah-- forever.

DT: All of a sudden there seems to be a rash of bands fronted by men in drag (Toilet Boys, Temptress). Has this always been the case and no one ever noticed, or did Hedwig open up the floodgates?

V: Lets be clear here, I don't do drag. I am 24/7 365 a year a trans MTF person. I costume up for the stage - same as most other performers, but a drag costume doesn't come off at the end of the set. I deal with all the Shit you can imagine any trans-person does each time I go to the grocery store, or pump gas, or travel…or go see a movie, or go to an art opening…or…oh yeah…USE THE BATHROOM!!! It's completely crazy! OK, are we clear?

Sorry…I believe it's the heat here in Minneapolis which is making me a bit cranky

Let's get back to your question about Drag. Yeah, I think bands have played with gender and Rock since the beginning: the Man Who Sold the World, Bowie in a dress, The Rolling Stones' Some Girls cover, T-Rex, New York Dolls, the slew of Metal 80's bands…boys in make-up and hairy chests (oh no…now don't deny it…you metal boys loved that gender fuck.)

No, I don't think it's new. But I do think it's getting bolder. The Toilet Boys don't pretend to be something different, nor do Temptress. They come out and lay it in your lap. The audience has to deal with it, and you know, they're not laughing as much anymore, and that's all good! It's getting a bit cooler to be playing with gender. That's what Rock and Roll is, and if it isn't…it should be!

DT: Being in a band can be difficult at times, but one would think it would be doubly so for a band that combines such intensity with their music like ATPH. Has dealing with adversity made you a stronger person?

V: There's a bit more than just answering if it's made us stronger, I do believe it has, but we've had to go through some bullshit first. There's an assumption that we get a lot of trouble from our audiences, but actually we get more from the club booking people who are afraid of looking Gay if they hire us.

Also we get trouble from record labels who feel that they would compromise their "standards" by working with us. But trouble from the audience? No, we hardly get trouble from them. They've been really supportive - and that's across genres, across age, race, gender, sexual orientation. I don't know why those "in power" people are so afraid of us with the kind of support we get from our audiences. Even if the audience is new and a bit suspicious, we usually win them over after just a few songs. I do believe the clubs who refuse to book us, and the record labels who won't consider us are just plain crazy. They just have no idea.

DT: Being Transgendered, you have the best of both worlds but you also get the worst that comes with it. Even if people do accept you for who you are, you then have to deal with the issues women have been facing for years. Do you ever encounter sexism or concern with body image as a female and how do you address these issues?

V: Well…it's not really the best of both worlds, it's simply one world of being Trans. No there's absolutely no male privilege retained from my past…and the best of being Female? Well, I'm 6 feet tall, with women's size 11 feet - I can never find clothes or shoes that fit. I do pass often, but I've never altered my voice, as it's my singing voice, so usually when I talk, that's gone as well. Hmm…no it's just being trans.

Sexism, yes that I do get "the worst that comes with it." Yeah, if I look female, I must be unable to deal with complicated things like fronting a band, or running an independent record label and promotions company. At times we travel with a bio Male, I usually drive and it's my van, but it has happened when the van breaks down, and I'm looking for assistance from mechanics. They usually go straight to the Male person and explain all that needs to be done, and how much it's going to cost like I'm not there! Not constantly, but now and then.

Body image. That's an interesting one…when we're on the road…it's actually better if I look more female than male. Being Trans, there's this balance going on, at least with me, I can tilt the perception one way or the other. If I'm seen as Male, then I'm also seen as Gay, and the possible violence that comes with that. If I'm seen as female, they don't really know what to do with me. But there's this suspicion that something's not right…so I get a lot of staring…but if they're unsure, then they usually don't go beyond that.

On the stage…well, remember the audience is usually supportive, so they love the image. The sexy tranny - that sometimes get's a bit out of hand, but usually people behave.

DT: What are some of the assumptions people make about you and how do you handle those perceptions?

V: That I'm Gay, (I am Bi, so whatever. I'm not upset by being seen as Gay…but my wife usually gets mad if we're not accepted as a couple.) I'm attracted to women as well as men.

That I'm unable to be strong. I'm a bit shy actually off stage, and fairly soft spoken…so if people don't know the band, it's hard for them to imagine my capabilities onstage. Hmmm … I suppose also, people who only know me from the stage, would have a hard time imagining me as shy or soft spoken too.

That I have implants. No, they're all real - all hormones. Just because I don't act all flighty and use a high voice, it doesn't mean that I don't do hormones. Voice isn't altered by hormones for MTFs, it's all training and/or surgery to remove the lower vocal cords.

That I'm wanting to go home with someone after the performance, first it's often assumed that Trans MTFs are all single and looking for sex. Or if they know I'm married, That I'm not monogamous - we must be swingers, or into threesomes etc. etc. It gets a bit irritating.

How do I deal with it? I'm consistent and patient actually. Most of those assumptions are naïve, and you can't really get mad at people, you just have to correct them nicely and consistently…eventually they learn.

DT: Besides being involved with music, you also do a lot of work in film and are quite successful at it. Your films have been shown around the world, everywhere from Berlin to San Francisco to Paris. How does it feel to have your vision reach such a wide audience?

V: Well, of course that's what an artist wants most, for their vision to reach as many people as possible. I only wish I had more time to pursue the other art forms that I enjoy doing at a more intense level. Working again as an independent band, so much of my time goes into the "business end" of keeping all that going.

I also paint. My wife and I did a permanent installation in NYC at a hotel called the Carltonarms Hotel (www.carltonarms.com.) I did the painting installation, and my wife did the poetry on the walls of room 5D. Anyone can stay in the room if you're in NYC or any of the other artist-designed rooms that they have. It's a beautiful hotel.

DT: You have two new documentaries coming out. What are they going to be about and how do they differ from your previous efforts?

V: There is a new Documentary which is coming our about us at the end of this year called: "Venus of Mars" by Emily Goldberg. She followed us for about 3 years, to the UK, NYC and the Midwest, and has shot hours and hours of footage. She's been editing it all for the past year into a full length documentary, and is almost done.

DT: You do a lot of work in the transgender community. Why is it important to understand people who live what would be considered alternative lifestyles?

V: Basically because of the violence directed towards them of course and discrimination etc. Everyone deserves to live their life without fear. Also, there's so many kids who grow up knowing they're different than everyone else, but they don't know why, or how, and they don't have anyone to look towards to see what their life could be like in a positive light. Most everything out there concerning trans-people is degrading - except the material put out by the community itself, which is hard to find in the mainstream outlets. Punch transgender or transsexual into any search engine, and you'll get pages and pages of porn.

People need to know first that not all trans-people are working in the sex industry. There's trans-people who have fought through, and are living successful lives in regular business just like everyone else. But often those success stories come along with the idea that you need to hide your transgenderism. You need to live in the closet about who you are. And not everyone who transitions, is able to pass that flawlessly. I'd say as we all become more aware of the trans-community, it's harder and harder for people in the trans-community to continue to hide who they are, which makes it ever harder to find that successful job, unless of course we somehow make it OK to be Transgender. Make it OK to be OUT about who we are.

That's where the work is now. And that's why it's important for people in general to understand who we are. We're just like everyone else…just as complex, just as intelligent, just as able to contribute to the richness of life as anyone else.

DT: You received the Bush Foundation Artist Fellowship Award for Performance Art in 1996. Do you find that ironic considering the family is very un-openminded?

V: Funny!!! No…the Bush Grant is a regional Midwest Arts Fellowship grant. That Bush isn't part of our current Bush government ruling party. Thought wouldn't it be nice of our government would acknowledge art in that way? Do you think they ever will???? Doubtful. I think the government is so conservative, even the Liberal governments we've had have been waaayyyy to conservative to accept the arts as something worth their effort.

We're going to continue to rely on individuals who have the insight and the finances to continue to give support to the arts. At least for as long as I can imagine. I doubt that we'll ever see our government taking a risk for the arts - look at what happened to the NEA.

DT: If there was one thing you could accomplish and be remembered for what would it be?

V: What a question! Sheesh! Well, OK. Hmmm. One thing to be remembered for accomplishing. OK, well, I guess it would be to have given some insight to everyone as to the wonderful complexity that we all, as humans, have. If there's some way that we can all just calm down about the differences we have, and begin to enjoy it instead of fear it, well, wouldn't that would be a great time to be alive.


For more info on All The Pretty Horses or "Venus of Mars" check out: www.prettyhorses.net